Posts by Doug Mason

10

"Bible Chronology" and the "Seventy Years"

by Doug Mason in

to arrive at its date of 607 bce for jerusalems destruction, the wts uses what it calls bible chronology.. this bible chronology says that since the seventy year period ended in 537 bce, when 70 years are counted back this provides the 607 bce date for jerusalems destruction.. the wts says its bible chronology method is superior to the secular uninspired chronology provided by secular sources.. does the wtss bible chronology align with the bibles teachings on the seventy years?

is its method the valid way to determine when jerusalem was destroyed?.

these matters are discussed in my study, which is available at:.

Doug Mason

Larry,

I do not agree that the "70 years" ended with the return of the Jews.

The "70 years" relate to the period of servitude to Babylon by all of the nations that were named by Jeremiah. They all started their servitude together, at the same time.

I believe I have quite clearly shown that the 70 years was an unavoidable period of servitude whereas the destruction of Jerusalem was avoidable.

Even after Jeremiah instructed the exiles in Babylon to settle down for the 70 years had been decreed, Jeremiah pleaded with Zedekiah to surrender because by doing so the city would be saved.

Ezra says at 2 Chronicles 36 that the servitude ended at the moment Cyrus defeated the Babylonians. It makes full sense, since the servitude to Babylon ended when Babylon's power came to its end. As Daniel told Belshazzar, its days were numbered.

Cyrus was able to make his decree because he was now in power, the 70 years of servitude to Babylon had already come to its end.

This in turn indicates when the servitude to Babylon by all of the named nations began -- when Babylon became the regional superpower (or maybe in the religious sense, when God decided to use Babylon as his servant).

Doug

26

Compilation of the bible and the NWT translation source.

by trailerfitter in

hi,, i have a curious question about when the bible was actually compiled.

from what i understand it was actually compiled under emperor constantines request in the 4th century ad.

this was the nicene creed.. i also am aware that there quite a few books that were considered for inclusion but weren't.

Doug Mason

I think you will find that the NWT NT is based on the Greek text of Westcott and Hort, as against, for example, the KJV NT which is based on the Textus Receptus, or the NIV which is based on an eclectic mix of sources.

I cannot comment on their OT, whether it is based on the OG (=LXX) or on the MT. There are several differences between the Hebrew and Greek, as well as with the versions in the DSS. Most of the NT citations from the Hebrew Scriptures are from the several vesrions of the LXX (even words attributed to Jesus) rather than from the MT.

I think you will find that Theodotian (381 CE) was more responsible for enforcing the Trinity and for determining Christian orthodoxy. The final list of which writings would be accepted the NT was drawn up by the Trinitarian Athanasius. Unfortunately he made mistakes, because Paul did not author several of the writings attributed to him, such as Ephesians, Colossians, 2 Thessalonians, 1 and 2 Timothy, Titus and Hebrews, as well as some small parts of Romans, 1 & 2 Corinthians.

For example, whereas Paul says there is neither male nor female and all are one in God's sight, that it would be better that they not marry or have children, and he used women to teach, a mysoginist writing 50 years after Paul died said that women were to be subject to their husbands, and they would be better to be silent and pregnant, and that the leaders had to be married.

The NT writings that were canonised represent the views of the Paul sector that became the dominant force, under the protection of the Roman emperors.

If you would like to read some of the history around the formation of the scriptures, which took centuries of deep division, try these for example:

"Who Wrote the New Testament?: The Making of the Christian Myth", Mack

"AD 381: Heretics, Pagans and the Christian State", Freeman

"A New History of Early Christianity", Freeman

"Jesus Wars", Jenkins

The 4th and 5th centuries saw murder and mayhem between the Christian factions that leave the Spanish Inquisition in the kindergarten league.

It is possible to read some of the writings that were not included in the NT by Athanasius:

"Lost Scriptures", Ehrman

"The New Testament and Other Early Christian Writings: A Reader", Ehrman

Doug

10

"Bible Chronology" and the "Seventy Years"

by Doug Mason in

to arrive at its date of 607 bce for jerusalems destruction, the wts uses what it calls bible chronology.. this bible chronology says that since the seventy year period ended in 537 bce, when 70 years are counted back this provides the 607 bce date for jerusalems destruction.. the wts says its bible chronology method is superior to the secular uninspired chronology provided by secular sources.. does the wtss bible chronology align with the bibles teachings on the seventy years?

is its method the valid way to determine when jerusalem was destroyed?.

these matters are discussed in my study, which is available at:.

Doug Mason

To arrive at its date of 607 BCE for Jerusalem’s destruction, the WTS uses what it calls “Bible Chronology”.

This “Bible Chronology” says that since the “seventy year” period ended in 537 BCE, when 70 years are counted back this provides the 607 BCE date for Jerusalem’s destruction.

The WTS says its “Bible Chronology” method is superior to the secular uninspired chronology provided by secular sources.

Does the WTS’s “Bible Chronology” align with the Bible’s teachings on the “seventy years”? Is its method the valid way to determine when Jerusalem was destroyed?

These matters are discussed in my Study, which is available at:

http://www.jwstudies.com/Bible_Chronology_and_the_Seventy_Years.pdf

I want to take this opportunity to express my deep gratitude to a “certain person” who helped me as I prepared this study.

Doug

82

first contradiction in the bible?

by cptkirk in

contradiction without the use of an outside medium (such as archaeology, fossil study).

i just stumbled on this after reading the thread about adam and the sexual subliminal message.

i was thinking about adam and eve and chronology, and a contradiction popped up in my head...so i picked up the bible and there it is.. gen 1:27 - god creates adam and eve, tells them to be fruitful.. gen 2:18 - now adam is alone?

Doug Mason

I find it so unbelievable that there might still be someone who thinks the Creation stories are to be understood literally.

Studying the events in space clearly show evolution in process, taking millions upon millions of years. Telescopes show us stars at each phase of their evolution, from birth, maturity to death, and then to rebirth.

When we see a star, the light reaching us could have taken milllions upon millions of years to reach us. The further we see, the earlier we are seeing.

Thinking that the Creation myths are real stories (who was there to record it?) limits the understanding of these ancient writings.

Doug

82

first contradiction in the bible?

by cptkirk in

contradiction without the use of an outside medium (such as archaeology, fossil study).

i just stumbled on this after reading the thread about adam and the sexual subliminal message.

i was thinking about adam and eve and chronology, and a contradiction popped up in my head...so i picked up the bible and there it is.. gen 1:27 - god creates adam and eve, tells them to be fruitful.. gen 2:18 - now adam is alone?

Doug Mason

Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 are from different sources. It is possible they were amalgamated by Ezra or during his time. The same process happened with other parts, such as when the two Flood stories were amalgamated.

Doug

82

first contradiction in the bible?

by cptkirk in

contradiction without the use of an outside medium (such as archaeology, fossil study).

i just stumbled on this after reading the thread about adam and the sexual subliminal message.

i was thinking about adam and eve and chronology, and a contradiction popped up in my head...so i picked up the bible and there it is.. gen 1:27 - god creates adam and eve, tells them to be fruitful.. gen 2:18 - now adam is alone?

Doug Mason

Leo,

You put a smile on my face when you wrote that "female is created to compliment him". That's the great weakness of men, isn't it? They want their women to compliment them. Of course, I know you meant "complement".

Thanks,

Doug

14

What was the source of Ptolemy's Astronomical Data used in the Almagest?

by VM44 in

does anyone know the source of the astronomical data that ptolemy used in his book the alamagest?.

the astronomical observations would have been time indexed using the year and day of the currently ruling king of babylon.. this becomes important is when one computes time differences between observations, particularly if the observations spanned the reigns of two different kings!.

Doug Mason

Larry,

I'm glad you finally worked out the problems with your formatting.

When you look carefully at my post, you will see that they were not my words, but that I was providing an answer to the original question from an objective source.

So that I do not have to wade through all the detail, could you tell me very simply which date you start from and where you get that originating date from.

Thanks,

Doug

30

Nebuchadnezzar's dream image - no room for China?

by SweetBabyCheezits in

a guy who used to be a jw buddy recently gave me hope that he's waking up to the wt fallacy.

he's concerned about the fact that china is becoming the next superpower, which creates issues for the statue in daniel ch.

2.. based on current jw light, there's no room for a single dominant world power after the "politically fragmented" landscape appears (the feet of mixed clay/iron).

Doug Mason

Which shows what fanciful ideas come out when a fanciful interpretation is given.

The Book/scroll of Daniel (its two sections are in two differnt languages) was compiled in the 2nd century BCE at the time of serious oppression and persecution of the Jews. The purpose of the book was to provide messages of hope to those people, using stories that would not carry meaning to their oppressors.

The story of the breakup of the superpower and of a rock striking it was intended to relate to their time. It was a message to them and for them.

Daniel was not a true prophet. He never worked for or preached to God's people. He interpreted dreams, and he did that for a heathen king. The stories are myths where people could stand in a fire and not even get singed, where ravenous lions were selective in the people they ate. These were stories intended to provide hope to the Jews being persecuted just as were these mythical people. It was a story-telling mechanism.

To this day, the Jews do not recognise Daniel as a prophet in the true sense, and they do not include the book in the prophetic part of Scripture. It is a "writing", not a prediction.

Given the bizarre pictures and messages, and that they were to be understood by a different culture, results in the widest range of interpretations and is dangerous place to base one's faith.

Dooug

28

Can you give specific examples of the WTBTS taking quotes out of context?

by Chemical Emotions in

not just from the bible, but from secular writers and others.

or other similar mistakes/lies regarding quotes and stories and things like that.. .

i have noticed a few, but i can't remember most of them... oops.

Doug Mason

Here are a couple of pages I produced in the 1970s, reproducing several pictures from Justus Lipsius' book, Der Cruce Liber Primus.

http://www.jwstudies.com/Pictures_from_Lipsius_de_Cruce_Liber_Primus.pdf

For those living here in Melbourne, the rare book can be seen at the State Library.

Doug

28

Can you give specific examples of the WTBTS taking quotes out of context?

by Chemical Emotions in

not just from the bible, but from secular writers and others.

or other similar mistakes/lies regarding quotes and stories and things like that.. .

i have noticed a few, but i can't remember most of them... oops.

Doug Mason

VM44,

How did you get the URL for Michael's booklet so quickly?

I was still trying to get my "brain" into gear and you had already posted the URL for Michael Van Buskirk's booklet.

I still have an original "somewhere", but it was good to see it is available online.

Doug